Emotional eating: the shame cycle and how to break it

0:13I just did it for us. Welcome. Jump scare. Welcome to Muscle Science for Women. Hello. It's Rachel and Ashleigh, and we're here, and we've got feelings. I hope you're ready. I hope you're ready. We were going to record a podcast that we have meticulously researched all about fiber. I think it's important. And delayed for a month. Yes, and we've delayed it for a month because life. That podcast will be coming out soon. and I think people will really like it 'cause it's a very deep dive, and everybody's talking about fiber right now, so like, let's get into it.

0:46But, we were having a especially colorful text chain before this episode- Colorful and we decided that maybe we'd talk about something else. maybe we'd talk about some more of the, emotional side of, we're gonna talk about maybe emotional eating, we're gonna talk about body image and how it literally impacts everybody, and how even the people that you see on social media and think, "They're the most sorted out, jacked person I've ever seen," they are probably eating their feelings at night, at least sometimes.

1:16Hands up. Hands up, folks. Hands up. Hands up. So we're gonna talk about it because it's very topical to us, and we know that- Mm-hmm … it's topical to you guys, too, and I just think it's good to kind of all come together as a community sometimes and be like, "Hey, guess what? This is happening. It happens to all of us. It's like a basically universal experience. Let's just…" When we get it out and talk about it, it's less scary, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think- Before- Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

1:38You go. No, I was just gonna s- No, I was gonna… Yeah. Oh, this is gonna be a great episode. I'm gonna shut up. Go for it. no, I was just gonna say that like, I think it's really, especially just this day and age with all of the new things coming out, when I say things, I mean peptides and… We, we're gonna, we're gonna address that in the near future, 'cause it's not going anywhere, and- Mm … I mentioned that- At least just talking through and giving our… And, and maybe this'll be something like if you're listening to this right now and you have interest in anything peptide related and you're like, "I have no idea what's going on, but all these people keep talking about, not j- like weight loss peptides and then other things and I don't know what to believe.

2:24I don't know what's real," my, my kind of take on it is like, okay, why don't we do an episode or a few where we give you like the actual truth of this is the science, this is wh- this is what we know because we don't know that much. and some anecdote maybe. But anyway, that's for a future podcast. Mm-hmm. But if you are listening to this and you're like, "Yeah, I'm interested in that from hearing from a credible source," let us know. Send us an email, comment on this podcast, right? Mm-hmm. We can comment on these?

2:53Okay. Yep. All right, back to it. Yeah. I think that it's just important to kind of normalize that almost, probably l- anybody listening to this podcast has at some point used food as a coping mechanism. and it's normal in the sense of a lot of people do it, and we raised our hands 'cause we do it too. Mm-hmm. And it's something that I think can be, f- like, looked at as very, like, shameful if you're doing it, secretively or you're hiding it or whatever. or if there's, like, a disordered eating component to it, that can even go deeper and deeper.

3:36I just think that we should talk about it. Mm. And we've talked about it before, but, let's get a little bit more vulnerable. Why not? Yep, let's do it. Let's do it … before we do that, I do want to read a nice message. Mm-hmm … guys, you can skip through this if you want, but don't skip through it, 'cause let's, let's be nice. So this is some feedback from somebody who recently took our Strong and Sculpted Shoulders, specialty program, and people who take the time to leave positive and helpful, 'cause they did give us some, some feedback too that was helpful for improving the program.

4:09but this is really meaningful, so this is why we say we would love for you to give us positive, constructive feedback and criticism, because it helps us do a better job for you guys. So this person, her name's Petra. She's from Austria, so we have people from Austria listening to the podcast and using our programs, which is amazing. She said, "I really learned a lot in your shoulder program. I learned a lot in all of your podcasts. I like listening to you two and often listen when I work out to feel more motivated and also because I relate to being a mom and still trying to stay fit."

4:38Yes, hello. "Also, the living without sleep." I had a long fitness journey, and I'm now an exercise therapist, and you still provided new info for me, and I completed my first shoulder workouts without my usual pain problems in my injured shoulder." So- Hell yeah. Yeah. she says, "Working the scapular plane, why did nobody ever tell me that?" so that's it. I mean, listen, you can… We can always learn. You can always learn. Even if you're in the fitness industry, you can learn from each other. so that was some really nice feedback from the program.

5:09Mm-hmm. And we'll put, the link to all of these programs that are available to you in the show notes. But the shoulder one- Yeah. Or just go to motherscienceforwomen.com … is especially, that too. but the shoulder one is always my fave, 'cause I'm always just gonna be an upper body girly. Yeah. I can't help it. Mm-hmm … so I really like that program. But anyway, that was just, like, a little bit of, positivity and niceness I wanted to get out before we complain and talk about- We're not gonna complain sadness and eating.

5:35We're just gonna- Talk. Yeah. Okay, so let's start- Okay … because you, you were kind of going through it. But yeah, how did this even start? I think I- I think that I sent you a ramble voice memo this morning, or maybe four of them. Yeah. Okay. Well, first of all- … have you seen, and I probably have, one of us has sent this to the other on Instagram or we should have, but you've seen a couple times probably these reels where it's, like, someone eating, like, cookies or eating some kind of junk food, and it's like, when you've had a long day, but you don't smoke or drink, and it's like, you gotta do something to take the edge off, right?

6:07I'm like this speaks to me so- Yeah … much because I'm not, I'm not like a complete non-drinker, but I, like, I drink probably literally, like, a cocktail or two every few months. Like- Yeah … I really am on, like, the low end, and I know people are like, "Wow, what a boring person." But I just, it's not like it's not really- Yeah just in my life right now, and I don't, I don't tend to do it. So the way that I can get that little hit of dopamine or feel good or distraction from whatever stress is going on in my life has always been to eat.

6:38Like, people who are like, "When I'm stressed or sad and I, I, I stop eating," I'm like, fully the opposite for me. Like, I will just- Mm-hmm … as soon as I'm having a bad day, I'm just, like, Hoovering- Mm-hmm … food into my mouth, and I've always been that way. And, to be a little bit depressing about it, even how much I know about what's happening, like the mechanism of what's happening and, like, that it's not really actually fixing any- Like, y- I know why I'm doing it, and I know that it's probably not the best thing to be doing, and I'll still do it.

7:07And I'll know- Yeah … I'll be saying it in my head even as I'm eating the thing, and I still… Sometimes you just have to You gotta do it. You gotta medicate, I guess, with food. I don't know. Like, it's such, it's just such a universal thing. And so then you, you were talking to me this morning. You were f- having that experience too. Yeah. And then I've always been the same way as well, when it comes to, like, stress and, and, like, e- people say, "When I'm stressed, I don't eat." I'm the same as you.

7:36Like- Mm-hmm … when I'm stressed, I want, I, I use food to cope. or at least that's been my pattern over the years. And so… And it's something that I've kind of been in and out. Like, we both have worked through these things, right? Like, that's, part of growing and developing new ways to kind of find other ways to cope. But food is always there, right? Food is always there. It's never gonna judge you. It's always gonna make you feel better. and so it is normal to use it as a coping mechanism. However, it can become something that, obviously, a pattern that, or a habit that comes in that you don't necessarily want to be there, or you, like you said, you know exactly what you're doing, but you still do it.

8:26And before we jump into kind of like, like, I can just k- kinda give, like, a little personal snapshot of where I've been the past month or so. but I think it's important to just, like, recognize the survival part of that, where it's like, okay, our brains are wired for survival. So if we are experiencing something that doesn't feel good, stress, loneliness, boredom, something that we don't wanna feel, even if we know that we're feeling that At some point, our brain just is gonna default to whatever the survival mechanism is that we programmed our brain to default to during these times of stress, because it is survival.

9:15And so for a lot of us, we've defaulted over our life to use food to, whether it's happy feelings, sad feelings, whatever, to kind of use that as a numbing mechanism, coping m- mechanism or whatever. And even when you're in it, you know it, you still do it, right? And so that's kind of the survival thing, and that's where it's like, okay, we can work to interrupt that pattern, and those are… Like, I've worked for a long time to interrupt that pattern, and I have, but it doesn't mean that you're not gonna regress to some degree, or sorry, relapse.

9:52That's a kind of bad word to use, but relapse to some degree throughout life because that's what happens. and I think it's all about kind of like being able to be faster at getting back on it- Yeah or to be able to talk about it and not Kind of go into a hole and feel shameful about it. Mm-hmm. Because that's where we start to get into trouble from- 100% … that side of things. Yeah. And also, it's worth- Mm … pointing out that, like, the shame and guilt of it is also very common. It's, that's, that's why so many of us do it in secret, or why so many of us don't wanna talk about it, or why so many of us kind of keep, as you said, sort of like relapsing into this, this pattern because instead of maybe sort of facing it and bringing it out into the light and being like, "This is what I'm doing because I'm super stressed out and this is how I'm managing it," you kind of just like keep it to yourself.

10:43And again, to, to validate people's feelings, like you, y- it's not shameful what you're doing, but feeling ashamed of it or feeling guilty- Mm-hmm … about like you eat it and you're like, "Ugh, why did I do that? I know that I'm not supposed to be doing this and I did it," that those are also extremely common reactions. And so just normalizing that sometimes, and I think even you and I have been there before, where we're doing it and we're like, "Why are we such- Oh, 100% … like, "Why are we so… We know better than this.

11:09We're smarter than this. We're stronger than this, and we're still doing it. What a, what a…" Say something bad about yourself, Mm-hmm. Yeah. Literally all of us have been there. So I think, again, just continuing to like talk about it, like literally the fittest, smartest, most educated, sorted out fitness professional that you idolize on the internet has sat on a couch in the dark eating some junk food and feeling like absolute garbage. Yeah. Like everybody has done it. So- Yeah … let's just sit in that for a second.

11:40Like, that's the reality. Yeah. I wanna, you just said something, and I did actually, I'm just pulling this up because I posted this in my, membership group the other day, and it said, it says, "Our most frustrating patterns are attempts to soothe, protect, or fill the places within us most starved for love." Hmm. Compassion is where change begins. Hmm. And from that, what I, and everybody can kind of perceive or interpret that however they want, but I think one of the things there is, like, we fall b- like I said, we fall back into these patterns, these things that are kind of our, our, like, comfort zone.

12:27And then if it's more of, like, a negative pattern, we shame ourselves versus, kind of looking at it as, okay, what did I actually need in that moment, and how can I meet myself with compassion instead of shame or instead of- Yes like beating myself up. And I, and I'm sure you have too, work through this a lot, just like entire, for the last 30-plus years. And I think that one of the biggest things that I keep coming back to is, like, if you ca- if you sent me a voice note and at night, right, and you were like, or like when you… Not at night, but mine's like, like last night I had, or the night before, I was like, whether it was loneliness or boredom or a combination of both, I just didn't wanna feel that, and I was like, "Let me just stuff my face." And for me, it's like I don't even stuff my face with, quote-unquote, "unhealthy food" because I don't keep that in the house.

13:24But, like, I will literally eat a huge tub of yogurt with frozen berries, but over from what I like need, right? Sure. Just to like not feel. Yeah. and so- I will eat chocolate bars But I'm- So we've got both bases- Yeah … covered. Yeah. If there's chocolate bars, I'll eat chocolate bars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but like, if you, if I were to send you a voice memo right after I did that and be like, "Ah, I fucking di- oops." That's okay. "I fucking did it again." Like, "I feel like crap. Why do I do this?" And like just beating myself up, you would not send me a voice memo back and be like, "You're so dumb.

14:02You suck." You know better than that. "What are you doing?" Yeah. "You know better," right? You would meet me with compassion, which is exactly what you did this morning when I sent you a voice memo, and you made me, like, you said, "Okay, let's like take a step back and then actually here's the reality of the situation, and I know you can't see it right this moment, but this is it," and then you brought me back to reality. Mm-hmm. And that's when I kind of think of like, okay, if we're beating ourselves up, if we're meeting ourselves with such, like, shame or hate or whatever, like, that's never gonna help us to address kind of what the, the core thing is that caused or triggered that event to happen.

14:41and so I'm, I've been working a lot more on that myself too, and I know that, like, you totally agree in the, right, in the sense of like meeting yourself as if you were talking to your child or your best friend, whatever. Mm-hmm. So yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I like that. I think, just so that this isn't like totally talking about emotions or our own kind of- Yeah … op- opinions about this, to bring it back to some like tangible, I think, helpful pieces for other people in addition to just, like, we're creating a c- a community where we're admitting that this stuff happens and we're all doing it.

15:12And I think you've talked about this before with, like, some of the learning and work you've done over the past year or so. But I think a really important, helpful tool- When we're doing this is first what y- one of the things you said before about not expecting to never mess up or to never- Mm-hmm … eat food for comfort or to never do this stuff is to start to, like, shorten the times that we feel out of control or we feel like we're doing things that are not, that are not working for us, they're working against us or against our goals and stuff, is to just kind of keep it, keep that rollercoaster from being super highs and lows to just like, "Okay, here's a little blip.

15:48Okay, I went down a hill, I went up a valley, whatever, but I'm kinda back on-" Mm-hmm. To try to keep it, get back as quickly as possible. So first acknowledging it's gonna happen. How, how can we get back on track faster is a better approach than how can we just never mess up again. Mm-hmm. So I think there's that. Mm-hmm. And then one thing that I have found really helpful and I've heard a lot of, like, I don't know, therapists or self-help people talk about this, and I think because it really is helpful, is this idea of, like, trying to spend more time, like step back between the action and then your reaction to it, and this idea of, like, riding the wave of whatever it is you're feeling instead of immediately reacting.

16:29Mm-hmm. And that's something I have a hard time with because- Urge surfing? Exactly, right. That's true. And it's for anything. It's not just… It's for any reaction that you have to something that you know is not what you actually wanna be doing, right? Mm-hmm. But we do it anyway. So you're driving through the drive-through and grabbing food because you've had a rough day or you, you know, drink more than you wanna be drinking because whatever it is, you know? It's just having… And so I'm thinking about my circumstance, which tends to be, like, eating junk food at night when I finally get a moment to myself.

16:56Mm-hmm. And I wanna treat myself, and I'm like, "That's not really treating your…" Anyway. is to just kind of take a moment and just be like, "Can I…" I can even set a timer. Just maybe set like five or 10 minutes, and instead of just immediately diving into whatever this food is, like, m- and it doesn't have to be woo woo. Like, you don't have to journal. You don't have to go sit and take deep breaths and meditate, although that probably would help. but you can just go do anything else. Like go- Mm … walk for a bit, read a book, sit and think about it.

17:23Give yourself some compassion. Why am I going for this when I know I don't wanna be doing it? And, in my case, I don't know how much you wanna speak to, some stresses lately, but for me, when I do this, it's often… It's funny, because I think a lot of people think when they binge or they eat too much, it's like a loss of control, and for me, I think about it as it's, I am conser- I'm, I'm asserting some control over my situation in a day or a period of my life when I have way less control over my daily choices than I normally do.

17:53And I think a lot of parents especially can relate to this- Mm-hmm … when your entire day is dictated by taking care of other people, and when you finally get some time at the end of the night, and maybe you should be taking better care of yourself. Maybe you should be going for a walk instead or reading a book or doing something, and all you wanna do is sit and disassociate and eat something that tastes good because you don't get a break during the day. Mm-hmm. And that's my thing, and it's really hard to balance it because on one hand, I'm like, yeah, I do deserve to like do something that feels good for myself, but should that be eating chocolate before bed every night?

18:26Probably not, And so being able to take a bit of time between the like knee-jerk reaction to something and think about it, feel it out, and there is, I guess, some, some science behind this urge surfing where- Oh, yeah you get this urge, "I wanna do this thing. I wanna, text my ex" or whatever it is. You say, "Just give it a minute. Just give it a minute," and you're gonna feel it, and it's gonna feel really uncomfortable, and you're gonna see that food there and be like, "Oh my God, I would just kill to open that up and eat it right now."

18:54And then maybe if you give it a minute, five minutes, 10 minutes, you might actually feel like, "You know what? Actually, on second thought, that's not exactly what I want, and if I can delay this gratification or if I can make a better choice- Mm … I'm actually gonna feel really good about myself." Or you wait 10 minutes and you're like, "You know what? I've been thinking about that chocolate bar all day. I'm going for it." But even then, you feel like you've kind of made a more informed- Yeah … under control decision about what is happening.

19:20so I think- Yeah … that's something that maybe people can think about. Like, a lot of people, I think, know about this concept, and maybe- Mm not a lot of us are doing it in the moment. Yeah. Yeah, and I have some thoughts there too because the other piece of that too, like what you mentioned, in putting a pause in for a little bit, like that is so much easier said than done, right? Mm-hmm. Like right now we're like, "Oh, yeah, I can do, I can set a 10-minute timer, When it happens, I'm, I'll be good." And then it doesn't, we don't do it.

19:47And the reason is because we are always defaulting back to the m- the comfort, the f- most comfortable thing, right? But- If there is, if y- there are a few times or even just one time, like even if you just say like, "Okay, tonight I am committing just tonight, if I get an urge, I am going to step away for X amount of time and do the urge surfing thing," right? And if you do it one time and you're actually successful with it, you're reprogramming the neural pathways in your brain to, to begin to trust that and to begin to create new neural pathways where it's like these are usually, I get this feeling I, or a trigger, and I, I go to the f- fridge, right?

20:35That's the, the pathway that's been going on, right? If you can interrupt that pathway and create new habits or pathways, you are literally proving to your mind that you can do that. And even if you relapse the next day or, I don't like the word relapse, but whatever. You know what I mean. Fall off the wagon, whatever it is. Yeah. Fall off the next day, like you have proven to yourself one time at least recently that you can get back on. Mm-hmm. And the more that you can do that, the easier it becomes because you're literally creating these new brain pathways.

21:09So that's one thing. The other thing that I loved is what you said, like step away for 10 minutes. Something else, like there's two things here. One is I always say setting your environment up because when that, like for success, because when that happens, if we have all the junk food in the house, obviously it's easier to go for that than to put our shoes on, get in our car, drive to the convenience store, whatever. Like that's a whole other process. However, we know with kids, with life, like we can't always have our environment to be perfectly set for what we want it.

21:41Another kind of tip that I've seen to be useful for clients is, okay, if they do want that chocolate bar, right? Or whatever. First of all, planning it into your day is one thing. The other thing is like, okay, if you're standing in front of the chocolate bar and you're like, "I really, really want this, but I know I shouldn't do it," have, take a serving of that instead of the whole bar. Take a serving of it, like whatever. W- even if it's just half the bar than you would normally. Like if you're gonna eat the whole, if you usually eat the whole bar and then you feel like crap after, take a quarter of it or half of it, put it in a bowl or whatever, and go into another room or go outside and really like sit there and enjoy what you're eating, right?

22:23Like taste it, smell it- Mm-hmm … like enjoy it, right? And then pause for a little bit and go for a little bit of w- like s- go do something else, right? Just take your mind off it, and that can typically create kind of a more safe, quote-unquote, environment where you're, you're kind of, you're, quote-unquote, giving in but it's in a controlled way and you're actually enjoying it versus just doing it to numb or cover up. And because you've stepped away and you've put the rest of it away, now you're kind of in a, and you've, and you've still given yourself some, you've allowed yourself to kind of come back down from whatever that heightened trigger was.

23:08And It's like okay, now I, I filled that. I was able to have that. If I'm still feeling triggered, if I'm still feeling like I don't wanna feel what I'm feeling right now, I gave myself what I wanted and now let me go s- pick something else to cope with. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Let me go take a bath or go for a walk or try, like, another thing, right? And I think that, at least from my experience of trying that and also, helping clients kind of i- implement that as a tool, has been beneficial because, like, you're not completely denying yourself and then you just think about the chocolate bar for the next three hours.

23:44Mm-hmm. You're actually al- allowing yourself to have a normal serving and enjoying it and, like, actually tasting it and not just, like, shoving it down your mouth to numb things. Mm-hmm. does that- Yeah … does that make sense? Yep. Yeah. Yep. It's another thing that feels hard in the moment, like the idea of, like, taking half of it, going in another room and being mindful. Like, a lot of people are like, "Sure, I'll do that," and then the moment- Yeah … you're like pew, pew, pew, pew, like scarfing down.

24:11Yeah. But to your point, like, these things, you don't go from zero to 100 overnight. You're not gonna be perfect at this. You're not gonna do it every time. But like you said, you can start to retrain yourself. And this goes into another part that I wanna talk about, another, another tactic, another strategy that can help you. There's a couple sort of things all tied together, and one is… And this isn't necessarily if you are experiencing, like, really strong dysfunctional attitudes, disordered attitudes towards eating.

24:38That requires a different kind of professional than a health coach necessarily. Mm-hmm. But if you're somebody like me, for example, who has just finished working with a coach for a few months to kind of get, get a bit of structure back into my life, feel a little bit better about myself, having, having a coach, having somebody who can i- talk to you about this stuff, help you create structure, help you create strategies. But also within that, the idea of tracking sometimes, because one of the things that I've found since I've been sort of in a cut, but a different kind of cut than I've done in the past, where I haven't really changed the way I, I eat so much.

25:12Like in the past when I was doing a cut, I'd be like, "Okay, well, there's no fat in my life anymore." Yeah. "There's no treats in my life anymore." And there's just no sort of reality to that in my current situation, so I really had to kind of make some adjustments. But what I'm saying is that if you do track sometimes, you might realize that it's not as bad as you think it is, So like a lot of people think, "Oh, because I ate this thing impulsively," or, "Because I ate this thing that isn't healthy," or, "I ate this thing that wasn't on my plan," like, "Ugh, I just blew up my life," right?

25:39Whereas you might realize, like if you had a chocolate bar or if you just ate, like, twice as much yogurt and berries as you normally do, like you can take a look and be like, "This really isn't that big a deal. It's actually kind of okay, and, maybe I can just sort of balance things out through the rest of the week." Like, you can look at it less as this scary m- a monster in your head and more like, like we've always said, it's just data. It's like you just- Mm-hmm … ate more than you needed to today.

26:03It's not that big a deal. You can just maybe, I don't know, eat a little bit less carbs tomorrow, or not. Just move on. You're fine. Yeah. It's really not that, that big a deal. Yeah. And then the other thing about that tactic of, like, having help, having structure, getting a coach, getting a plan, tracking, is knowing that it also takes time. So, like, one of my biggest challenges in losing a couple pounds the last few months and also just feeling better and, like, having a, a dietary plan that actually supports my goals instead of just doing whatever was I was basically eating two dinners a day.

26:35Because I eat dinner at, like, 5:00 PM with my kids, and then I'm awake until 10:00 or 11:00. I'm hungry. I'm eating again. Mm-hmm. So I'm, I'm eating because I'm hungry, but I also… It was like a, it was like a timing thing. It was like an amount thing. It just, I, it wasn't, it just wasn't really making much sense. And it took me weeks and weeks to sort of wean myself off that, that plan because things came up, or I was hungry, or I felt like it, or whatever. I wasn't, I'm not, I don't have the, like, capacity to be 100% compliant maybe the way I used to.

27:08And so just knowing, like, the way I was eating when I started and the way I'm eating now is very different, but it didn't happen overnight. It happened, it took time. It happened. And suddenly I'm like, oh, suddenly I don't, I'm not craving eating food right before bed 'cause I'm eating properly and I'm eating at a slightly different time, and I'm eating a little bit more food, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. And I've also trained myself to do exactly what you were saying where, no one's watching me.

27:32I kinda feel like eating. It's before bed. But you know what? Tonight I'm just gonna feel a little discomfort. I'm just gonna choose not to. Maybe I'm a little hungry. I have a goal. I'm just not gonna do it. And then I've done it and I'm like, wow, I, I can do this again. I, I know this- Yeah … about myself. I can do it. And so the difference in how I am approaching food, how I'm showing up for myself, how I'm eating, has changed quite drastically over three or four months. But it wasn't just somebody gave me a plan and I immediately followed it to the T and was perfect.

28:01Mm-hmm. So again, reminders for people. Again, even people who know what they're doing, quote-unquote- Yeah even people who've done it- I feel like- … a million times, It's just you're not gonna be perfect, and so just get that out of your system immediately. Mm-hmm. Stop trying to pretend. Nobody's perfect. Literally no one is. So just, it's these little things. Can you make a better decision today? Yeah. And, and those pile up, right? So. Yeah. I feel like I've had the opposite experience over the past few months.

28:29Mm. Which is funny 'cause- Yeah … it's just, It's not your typical experience. Well, and, and so I wanna talk about this too because this is kind of the other side of- Not necessarily getting so far into body image, but being a little bit more vulnerable, in the sense of, again, we talked about this, like, at right in the beginning you said you see people on social media and they look like they're, having a grand old time and, things are going great. No one's having a grand old time behind the scenes.

28:57Nobody. But everybody is struggling. And I think- Yeah … like I've shared, my entire like breakup whatever story, over the past, what has it been, a year and a half now? Mm-hmm. No, a year and a few months. I left San Diego June 2025, and it is August 2026. Yeah. So, and this is kind of what we talked about this morning in the voice note that I sent you, which I basically was like, I know that I shouldn't feel this way, but I feel like crap because I've for sure gained like five pounds of, five pounds over the past like six weeks and I just like don't care."

29:34And this is, it's kind of like we're going back to, again, we are humans and we struggle the same as anybody else even, and maybe, and I would argue for myself to a m- a, a higher degree than that because of the pressure of this career and always trying to be on, quote-unquote. and I think that especially like in the nutrition space, especially with coaches, we j- we just don't talk about it enough how there is this underlying like pressure to always be on, and that adds a whole other layer. but so just a little like body image.

30:22I've just been feeling- Mm-hmm … a little bit uncomfortable because I did get to, like I mentioned, a few months ago, whatever, I started working with my coach again. I had set a new goal, and I wasn't necessarily like cutting super hard, but I got pretty lean. But in that time there was a lot of emotional stuff that surfaced again, and I'm like okay to share it now just because I'm, I'm f- further out from it. But basically during that time I went through a whole other style of a breakup, with my best friend, and it was just like a complete- I don't even know how to explain it, but I got… And it might not, like, it probably came off in some podcasts, right?

31:10Like, I was very, very depressed, and even probably more so than what I was going through f- through the shock of my initial breakup, and it was just such a mind F that I was… It was, it was, it was dark. and I just, but I had to keep showing up, right? So, like, I was going through all that personally, and obviously in therapy and stuff like that. And so I'd, I had n- like, gotten pretty lean, but that was, like, the first time that that was more so I was just, like, really depressed, so I actually wasn't eating enough, and I was getting really lean.

31:44Hmm. which is opposite of what has always been my go-to, which is when I'm stressed, I eat, or when I'm not feeling good, whatever. So I got to a point where I was just leaner. I was still, eating healthy and all that stuff. But, going a little bit more to an extreme because it was the only thing at that point in time that I felt like I was, I had control over, even though a year ago I said the same thing where I was like, "I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna control this, and try to get…" 'cause I, I talked about how I, like, my body composition is the thing I know I can control, so if I'm going through something stressful, I'll just, like, focus on that, right?

32:21And during my initial breakup last year, I didn't do that because I was, like, giving myself grace, recognizing that was a huge life chapter. And then in this last few months, it was, I kind of regressed back to that. Anyways, D- even just getting more vulnerable, I, I'm just, like, at a point where I, I feel like so many people can relate to these different things. So I ended up, starting a small dose of an antidepressant, which- Mm-hmm we've talked about. and kind of started that at the exact time when I was probably at my leanest in the beginning of the summer, and that obviously started to change things.

33:00I was, going through that transition of that stuff in my system, and I literally texted you this morning, I was like, "Now I get why people who, are on antidepressants feel like they're gaining weight," and it's… And I was trying to explain that, like, over the past six weeks I just was g- like, I didn't f- go through a proper reverse diet, which we've talked about. Mm-hmm. Because I was just, like, in the F it mindset, and I was going from being, like, super depressed, I guess. I don't know. it's still even weird saying that, like, using that term depressed.

33:34Mm-hmm. That's, like, what my therapist literally said to me when this was all happening. She's like, "You, you are depressed." and so it's weird to, like, say it out loud. Mm-hmm. But anyways, utilizing that tool alongside therapy and everything else I was doing, I, the past, like, six weeks just was leaning on food more to cope alongside that, but, like, at, to the degree where I just, like, wasn't caring. knowing what I'm doing, but not, not res- re- necessarily caring. And so that in itself has now kind of brought some just, like, body image- Mm-hmm … stuff that I've been dealing with the last few weeks, because I, I did gain some weight in a shorter period of time.

34:22and I'm not blaming, I'm not saying the antidepressants caused the weight gain. That, that's not it. It's that that alongside of everything else that was happening, I was just not… I was over-consuming- Mm-hmm … and I was in a surplus, and I was not paying attention to the things I usually pay attention to. Mm-hmm. so with all that being said, the reason I'm sharing this is because I feel like we talk a, a, we try to be very transparent on this podcast, but sometimes it's hard when you're in it to- Mm-hmm share the full experience because it's so, like, it's so hard.

35:03And I was just- Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I'm still, still in it, but, like- I don't know. Now I don't even know what the fuck I'm saying anymore, and I'm cursing, and I'm obviously a little nervous- This is gonna be an explicit episode … because- Okay. Can I- Yeah can I take over for a bit? Yeah, please take over- Let me take a breath … because I'm sweating and… Okay, okay. Well, listen, first of all- … thank you for sharing it, 'cause you don't have to. Yeah. And you know that there are people listening who can relate to this experience and who feel less alone because you're sharing it, so that's important.

35:35I think that, when you're saying, like, out loud it's, it's weird to even, like, say the word depression, whatever, it's because partly I think because you are such a high-functioning perfectionist, type A person that that, I'm sure that that word or what you maybe, your preconceptions about what that word means don't align with your daily sort of experience. And so that's why one of the things that was so interesting for you in the last month or so was this feeling of like, "I don't care that much," Like, "I don't care the way I normally do, and that's throwing me for a loop because I normally care very much about the choices I make and the decis-," And so that's something that's, like, new for you to contend with, and that's, that's a big deal, right?

36:13So, like- Mm-hmm … again, giving yourself the compassion that, like, you're experiencing new things. You're going through a lot. There are things happening that you're not used to, and you're, like, doing your best to kind of, like, roll with it, The best, the way that you can. Yeah. and I think just bringing it back to, again, something that can be universally understood to the people who are listening is this idea of, m- feelings about your body and how you look and self-image because, yes, you could argue that those of us in the fitness world, we potentially have an added pressure because people can be very harsh and look at like, "Oh, you're supposed to be teaching s- people how to, like, be fit and look good, and you, like, don't even look like much yourself."

36:54And as we've said, we were talking offline, like, you and I are in different situations but having very similar life experiences because I have spent the last couple of years feeling like I don't even look like I belong here because to me, because I have been pregnant twice, and I had to lose 30, 40 pounds, and then my body's doing stuff that I, like, don't h- know what is happening. And I'm, like, looking in the mirror, and I don't even know what I'm looking at. And I think that a lot of, a lot of postpartum moms can understand that feeling too, not even from, like, a fitness, I have to be so fit perspective.

37:29But there's something, and this isn't maybe universal, but I think a lot of moms can relate to this. There's something that's happening in the first year postpartum that is a combination of crazy hormonal shifts. You have a lo- you have extra weight. You're not sleeping, which is a perfect recipe for looking your worst, literally. Mm-hmm. And then you have the least amount of time you've ever had to take care of yourself. It's this perfect, like, people wonder why people get depressed. It's like, are you kidding me?

37:57I haven't slept. All I hear is screaming all day long. I'm 30 pounds heavier than I normally am. I have zero ti- I haven't showered in three days. And I'm supposed to, like, feel like I'm a fit, attractive person? Like, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And, similar to what you were saying, like, people probably have heard some stuff from me over the last, like, year and a half in the podcast where I'm- Like, I was in some really dark, like very hard, like this second postpartum was really, really hard for me in a way that the first one wasn't and it was, and it's hard to talk about at the time because then there's the added thing of like if you complain too much about how you have this like blessing of a healthy baby- Mm-hmm and you're like complaining that it's like actually driving you nuts and you feel like you're dying, then people are like, "Oh, well, is she crazy?" Or is she- Yeah … just, or is she just dramatic?

38:46Or- Mm-hmm so there's like- Especially when this is your career and you're like- Mm-hmm … I don't, I don't want to like tell, like my clients and the people that I want to be my clients- To feel like I'm weak or I don't- To feel, yeah, like feel like I'm weak. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And it's- Yes … so that's the pressure that I'm talking about. It's like- Mm-hmm … we wanna share and, and show you that we are going through all this stuff, but we're still, like I was literally in the darkest hole that I've ever been in my life three months ago, but I was still showing up.

39:10Here. Mm-hmm. And so were you. Mm-hmm. You were still showing up to your best degree, and I just think that it's, yeah, it's hard. Yeah. But anyway, sorry, I interrupted you. No, no. That's okay. Continue. And I think, again, it, it, it just, it, it's, it's highlighting what we're saying and it's also showing that, it's normal. And talking about it, this is the other thing. So the other thing that people can do, going back to tangible things for our listeners- Mm-hmm … if you're experiencing stuff like this, if you feel like you're eating in a way that is not in line with what you want, if you feel like you have patterns that are repeating that you know are not the patterns that you like, one thing that also can be very helpful is talking about it and externalizing it and sharing with somebody who is able to, to- ha- share that space with you- Mm-hmm and that you know is supportive of you.

39:57and this is a big deal coming from me, 'cause people who know me know that I am not… I don't tend to be a sharer, and I don't… I have, like, major issues with like, showing, quote, unquote, "weakness" or, like, asking for help from people. I think a lot of people have that same, challenge. But going through, as we go through life and we go through things where it just becomes very starkly real to you that you literally cannot do these things by yourself. You literally can't. You can't go through life by yourself and never asking for help.

40:25Yeah. And you did. You did it. Today… Like, it's not so much like a cry for help, but you were like, "I feel crappy about this. I'm gonna share this with you." Yeah. And we talked about it, and it's not retroactively stopping you from, like, eating something you didn't wanna eat, but every time you kind of get it out there and you share it with somebody and the world doesn't end, and the person- Mm … like you said, the person doesn't say, like, "Ooh, yikes, you're really, "- You suck you're really making some… Yeah, you're really making some bad decisions.

40:49Like, you might wanna work on that. Like, every time that you can share it and, and it, it's normalized a little bit and it… You're supported and you feel like it's not the end of the world, that also does help. And- Yeah … maybe that's a therapist. Maybe that's sharing it with your friend who's going through something similar. Maybe it's, again, even journaling. Just externalizing it somehow- Yeah … because I know very well that the stuff that stays inside, it doesn't go anywhere. It does not get better.

41:18Mm-hmm. It does not get fixed. 100%. So figuring out a way to kind of get it out of you in one way or another- Yeah to process it, is really important. Yeah, and I think that, like, one other thing too is, like you said, asking for help or not feeling ashamed to ask for help. Like, I'll be completely honest, I… From the antidepressant side of things, like, that was, And I feel like it still does have, like, a stigma behind it where it's like, "Oh, you're taking an anti- like, you're, you're on an antidepressant?"

41:48like, at least that's how I grew up. It, it was like, it just had a, a weird stigma behind it. So that was always, like, my thought process, like, "I don't need that. I'm not, I'm not gonna… That's- Mm-hmm … I'm not that depressed," right? Mm-hmm. I don't… Like, that was where I was at, and, and that's also, like, when I was going through my initial breakup, like, I was for sure depressed, but I was not utilizing that tool because I was like, "No, that's, that's not… I don't need that." And then when this second thing happened on top of that- I, like, confided in my sister and confided in, in you and, and like got… instead of holding it in, and my, and my therapist, and got it out.

42:26And then, like, saw this as a tool to help me to be able to put the work in alongside that, right? Just like using it as a tool, not something that's a ba- like I alwa- I, w- people think, "Oh, that's a Band-Aid. It's just gonna, help for, for the time being." But now coming out, or not on the other side, in it- Mm-hmm … really still in it, but further away from where I was, I see and feel, and I'm sure the listeners can kind of hear in my voice the last, month or so, two months, it has dramatically helped.

43:02But it's not just because I've taken a, popped a pill, right? It's because I've also done the work alongside it. and this is going off the, this is going off the rails, and we don't have to dive into this, but I think that we should in a future episode. I think that a lot of people right now too, with everything that's going on with the peptides and the weight loss drugs and things like that, is there's a stigma behind it and there's shame behind it, and people are util- like secretly utilizing… And I'm saying this because I've had interactions with, with clients and things like that, like recently where it's like we're hiding it, the, like things are being hidden because it feels shameful and because, you don't want other people to think like, "Oh, I lost all this weight because I just popped this pill," or- Mm-hmm whatever, took this injection.

43:56But if you're s- doing the other work alongside that- And you're utilizing the tool, I don't think that there's necessarily anything to be ashamed of. And I wanted, I wanna get that across because we, we did talk about this in our, in another episode where we talked about, like, you can buy skinny but you can't buy strong. And I think about that. I've been thinking about that because I don't want that to come off as something that, pushes people to feel like if they are utilizing this tool, this type of tool, like it's bad or wrong or shameful.

44:25But you need to still be doing the work alongside that tool, and that's what, like making sure that you're eating enough protein and still training so that you're building muscle and holding onto that muscle if you're utilizing this tool. But anyways, so we can go into that in a dif- different episode, but I think that there is coming where there's gonna be a lot of people secretly using these things, and I want this to be like, I don't know, I just feel like there needs to be- Mm-hmm … a safe space where it's like, it's okay.

44:57You don't need to hide this, but let's make sure that you're doing it in a safe way, and you're also doing all the other things alongside it so that you can be successful in that. Just like, I'm taking an, an antidepressant medicine, and it's not fixing everything, and I don't wanna stay on that for the rest of my life, but I'm i- putting into place these other things now that are helping me to build up the skills and, get to a place where I can come off of them, right? Mm-hmm. Who knows, like, when that will be?

45:27It's just understanding that I still need to put in the work. Mm-hmm. It's not just a Band-Aid that's on t- that, that I, or like a pill that I take and my problems go away by any means. Mm-hmm. as we can see, like, still going through the rollercoaster. so yeah. Anyways, now I'm rambling. But hopefully that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I think, I hope that the people who've been listening to this and who have followed us for any amount of time know that we are not judgmental people and that we really, a real focus… We will still have opinions, and if people ask us, we'll give them, but it's never rooted in judging a person's character based on decisions that they've made.

46:05And I think that's a really important part of this podcast because that's the community we're trying to build, is people feeling better about themselves, and that's through the lens of, of health and learning about your body. so I really hope that people… And, I'd like to say it's because we're just such nice, kind people- and maybe that's also true. But for me, it's because I don't really care about what other people, what your choices are. You make your own choices. Mm-hmm. You're an autonomous person.

46:32I don't have time to worry about if you are vegan or if you don't like strength training or if you are on a GLP-1. Like, and I don't mean that in a mean way, I just don't care. Yeah. You're you and I'm me. You make your decision. We're here to talk about things, to get stuff out in the open, to learn- Mm-hmm … to share stuff so that you can go and, like, do some further research for yourself, to be a person who knows about their body and how it works and feels empowered and feels- Mm-hmm strong and good.

47:00And I think a great place to end this, 'cause we do have to end it soon, 'cause I gotta go- Yeah … is, the, the great kind of, like, end point that you made is that no matter where you are in life, in your personal life, in your fitness journey, in anything, how old you are, whatever, the work is not done. The work is not done, right? And that can be, that can sound kind of, like, ominous or scary, but it's also good because it means there's still so much that you can do. There's still so many choices you can make and things you can try and a journey still to happen where positive things can come out of it.

47:34So- Mm-hmm … I think that that's a great place to, like, sit for a bit and realize. Like, if you're in the middle of, like, what we've been talking about, if you're like, "Yeah, this is literally me. I'm doing this all the time, and I feel stuck, and I feel mad, and I feel frustrated, and I'm judging myself," we're all on that journey somewhere. Mm-hmm. And there's work to be done for all of us. So… And I would say, too, don't hesitate to- Reach out and even just like if you're listening to this now and you're like, "I'm- I just wanna get it out on paper, or I just want someone to know what I'm feeling," w- we're here.

48:05Like, you can e- you can send us an email. That sounds so- Mm-hmm … lame. Like, send us an email about your deepest, darkest fears. No, just- You can do that too if you want, though- You can. You can … on our website because you can be anonymous, so. Yes. Yeah. But also, like, we will not sh- we don't share everything on the podcast- Mm-hmm … unless you give us permission to. Mm-hmm. but even if that, I just want to kind of everybody know that there are people out there who are feeling the exact same way that you are.

48:32Mm-hmm. Even circ- circum- circumstances may be a l- slightly different, but, like, we all have these feelings, and just know that you're not alone and that you can have support, and you can get support. and even if it just means, like, putting it out into the universe, that can help. So much. So yeah, I love what you, what you said too. So- Thank you … hopefully that- We do have to talk about our sponsor. This is gonna be a little bit of a left turn- Oh, no … from all of our, from all of our deep emotional talk.

49:01But we still have True Nutrition still sending- Yes … us amazing protein. They're still our sponsor. And I'll say, I will say as I'm coming out of, as of this recording, I'm like literally finishing up what ended up being about like a 14-week cut. Mm-hmm … and I didn't get 100% … Again, transparency, talking about perfection, I didn't get 100% where I was aiming to be at the beginning, but I got pretty darn close, and I feel pretty good about it. Which is amazing. Yeah. Like, I, thank you. I tried.

49:30I worked really hard. I feel proud of it. I didn't, I'm not giving myself an A+, but like I feel good about the work that I put in- Mm-hmm … and I feel better, and I look better, and I'm doing better, so pat myself on the back for that. Yes, please. but I will say, and some people aren't into this as much, but I really, when I'm on a cut, I really do tend to utilize things like protein powders more. Like, I know you're kind of like an OG. You're doing it every night with your Ninja CREAMi. Like, that's how- Mm-hmm … and for me, like when I get into a cut, this is like a topic for like a whole other convers- … for a whole other day maybe.

50:02Maybe next time. But, but there is a reality of smaller people on cuts just having less wiggle room because when you're a smaller person and you're trying to actively lose fat, and maybe you don't have a ton of fat to lose, whatever, your calories are gonna be small sometimes, and you don't- Oh, yeah have a lot to play with. And when I'm trying to figure out my macros and trying to keep fat low, protein high, and everything I eat is like animal protein and it has fat, and I'm just like, "I can't make these numbers work." And so sometimes I, I will rely more heavily on things like protein powders or even protein bars.

50:35they work for me. It keeps me, it keeps me on track. And so that's one way that I am like using these things because I'm, some, some days my snack or my in between meals or my post-workout is just gonna be a, a protein shake. And what's good about True Nutrition- That's smart … right, is that you, not only is it, the big thing is that they're customizable, right? Like, you can make- Mm-hmm … your own- You can choose your own flavors, you can choose the protein basis. You can use egg white, you can use grass-fed whey, you can use isolate, you can use pea protein, whatever it is.

51:05But you can also add in all these things. You've got, like, collagen, electrolytes, and amino acids, and adaptogens, and all of this stuff. So I feel like even if it's, quote-unquote not a whole food meal that I'm having, I can really kind of, like, boost it more- Yeah … than if I was just doing, like, a regular protein shake, Yeah. I consider protein powder like not- Basically a food supplement … I think it's, it's like in between. Yeah, it's a food supplement. Yeah, yeah. It's in between that. If you're eat- if you're eating and drinking protein powder for every single meal throughout the day- Yeah, not great … not great.

51:32But if you're utilizing it just like you said, once or twice a day, sometimes three if it's a crazy day, like, there's nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm. so yeah. Thank you, because that's what I'm doing. but I am looking forward to eating a little bit more food in the coming weeks, and maybe even more fiber- … which will be our next episode. Mm. Fiber. but anyway, thank you to True Nutrition. If you go to- Yes … TrueNutrition.com/muscle, we put that link in the show notes, and you use the code muscle, you will get 20% off your own custom blend.

52:01And as I said in previous episodes, if you make a custom blend, you have to name it something cool. Don't just let them name it custom blend 450. You gotta say, like, "This is Rachel's badass chocolate…" Whatever the hell. Jeremy Unicorn something. Come up with something interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember, we had it last week. but anyway, they have been a great, a great sponsor. Their products are amazing. That's, like, the only protein I'm using right now, and I'm loving it. Mm-hmm. It's really good … so definitely go check it out, TrueNutrition.com/muscle.

52:28The code is muscle for 20% off, and it's great. And you're great. You're great. And everybody's doing great, and doing the best they can. Right. And even if you're not doing great- And even if you're not doing great- … you're, it's okay … it's okay. You'll- It's, it's fine. You'll- You'll do great even- you'll do great soon. There you go. There's greatness in your future. You'll do great at some point probably. You'll do eventually. You'll, you'll… Eventually, you'll be doing fine. This is what happens when we keep going, like, one minute longer than we should.

52:55So we're gonna sign off. We're gonna try to become motivational speakers. Yeah. Until next time, just don't do stupid shit. Yeah, and just, like, don't be insane, but be nice to yourself sometimes. There you go. And then when you're not nice to yourself, it's okay, just do it tomorrow. And we'll be nice to you- … because we love you, okay? Yeah. All right. Okay, love you. Bye. Come back next time. Bye. See you.