Fiber myths: how much do you actually need?

0:13I feel like barking and running away when people come to my door too, so I guess Oh. Take- Two. Take two. You're- Hello … you guys should be very happy you don't have to listen to some of our bloopers, 'cause some of them are, some of them you'd pay for. Some of them- … you're like, "I don't need to hear this." Listen, guys. Or be in our,… Instagram DMs, what, that weren't sent and done. Yeah, you only show, you only show the cute, wholesome ones. guys, if this is your first time, hey- Yeah … it's a health and fitness- Let's go … nutrition podcast.

0:43Muscle Science for Women, in fact. The best one. here we are, Ashleigh and Rachel, fully- The- caffeinated and ready to deep dive on a pretty big topic that I'm actually kinda surprised we haven't talked about yet. But, you know, I don't know. Have we not? I mean, I don't think at, in the- Maybe a few years ago … the depth that we will be talking about it today. Mm-hmm. But before we talk about fiber, everybody's favorite thing, what's up? But also- Oh … can we just say, like, this isn't gonna be a boring episode of, like, oh, this is soluble, insoluble fiber, and you should be getting this one, this, and blah blah.

1:17W- that's not happening. Yeah, we're not really doing, like, the 101. We thought we'd just kind of have- Yeah … a more sort of realistic conversation about, you know, debunking some myths about fiber, some of the things you might be seeing a lot of on social media, kinda talking about our own experiences, and how you may look to adjust or manipulate fiber intake based on your goals and who you are. Mm-hmm. Because, again, it just goes back to this idea that if anybody, if you see anybody say, like, "You should get this many grams of fiber per day from this source, this is what you need to be optimally healthy," they're probably, you know, not… It's, that's not personalized, right?

1:55That's, that's- Yeah … any blanket statement is not super helpful. Baselines, you know, benchmarks can, can have their place, but just saying, "This is how much fiber you need to eat," you know, it depends, right? Yeah. So, For sure … the other thing that I think is funny, and I just had to say this too, because I, I need to just stop, I need to stop letting internet rage bait, rage bait me, right? But I've seen- Rage bait … like, I've seen a bunch of, I've seen a bunch of people, like, post this stuff about, like, everybody's talking about protein, and, like, no one talks about fiber, and everybody, we should be talking about fiber and not protein.

2:30S- protein's so stupid. It's like, okay, they're not one versus the other, guys. Like, they're two very separate things that are part of- Yeah … nutrition that are both needed and both worthy of discussion. But, like, you don't have to be mad at protein because protein isn't fiber or whatever. Like, calm down, guys. Yeah. Calm down. I also need to calm down I don't- yeah. Yeah, I think, I haven't seen any of that, but I don't know- I- what parts of the internet you're on maybe. I don't know. I'm telling you, they… Meta sends me stuff to piss me off on purpose.

3:02They do. That's true. They do that. Okay, what up? What's our… We're gonna do a little catch-up- Hmm … just to s- you know, level set where we're at in life. So. Yeah. Fo' sure. On my end, I actually did just come up with something that's re- somewhat relevant to this podcast and kind of interesting. This week, I am, for the first time in a very long time, getting a full blood panel workup- Oh … full shenanigans because it's been a long time, and also I'm in a very different phase of my life than when I used to do this kind of stuff very regularly.

3:37Like, I'm now, you know, done having kids, hallelujah- … done breastfeeding. All that's over with, and it's now been a few months. So my understanding is that things are starting to regulate now, so this is probably a good time to start getting back to, like, benchmarks and seeing, like, how am I actually doing? Like, do I have any micronutrient deficiencies? Like, how are my, how are the hormones going? How is all that feeling? Mm-hmm. so I'm gonna go do that this, at the end of this week, and hopefully… I think I told you that, I'm going to an, see a naturopath for this because I do have a doctor, and, you know, this doctor is, is pretty good, but she's more like, "I'll, I'll order some blood tests if you have a problem or if you think you have a problem."

4:17Mm-hmm. You know, versus you go pay for it, and you just say, "Look, I want all of it. I want the whole suite. Just get it done." Yeah. And they're like, "Okay." So that's the route I'm going, but, I don't know if I told you this. Mm-hmm. But Alex had done this recently with the same person, and he's like, "You know, like, middle-aged, and I'm tired, and I'm stressed out, and, like, I need to go see if, like, all my stuff is in order." And he, like, paid for this whole, like, panel, and the guy was like, "You are the healthiest person I've ever seen in my entire life." Like, he's like- Yeah … "Your hormones are perfect.

4:43All of your, like, everything is perfect." And I'm like, this is what happens when a, like, type A person who's obsessed about this stuff. Yeah. Whereas I'm like, "Oh, I feel probably fine," and I'm gonna go, and they're gonna be like, "You have zero-" Well, yeah … "iron in your body" or something. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see. So- So I, I do wanna just, like, speak to that for a second because I think there is- Again, when we're looking at blood work, obviously iron and all that stuff, and you know, vitamins and all that stuff is pretty straightforward.

5:13But from the hormone side of things- Yeah there- I think there's a big, and this is why working with someone who specializes, especially as we're getting older and as we're potentially going to perimenopause, like the blood work is just a snapshot in time. And, I think- You gotta do it more than once at least from, more than once, but it's also, like at least from what I've learned with working with a bunch of clients who are in that perimenopause, stage of life and just diving into to that side of things with like HRT and all that stuff, there's a huge component of, and we talked about this in our previous episode, so people should go back and listen to, maybe we'll link them.

5:48The w- we talked all about HRT- Mm-hmm … but the symptom side of it. So it's like, to me it's a red flag if you, if you go to your doctor and you get all this blood work done and they look at the blood work and they say, "Oh, it all looks great," like, "You're fine," but you're experiencing all these symptoms and they're kind of brushing that under the rug, that is a red flag i- in my opinion, from wh- what I've read and learned an- and researched from all this, because s- a lot of the times the blood work is just a snapshot in time.

6:17Especially for females, everything's changing like day to day, hour to- hour to hour with our hormones. So- Totally … I think that's also just something to be like cognizant about. Especially with you, like when you get your, your blood work back, you know, I would go in and like I would start kind of just like writing a list of, and this is what I tell my clients, like any of the symptoms and the stuff that you've been tracking hopefully over the past several months, like write those down. Like what are your symptoms?

6:40What, you know, not just hot flashes but sleep and energy and like what does that look like? Because a lot of those things are not gonna show up in that snapshot of blood work. So- Sure … just being a proponent of, proponent? That's not the word. What's the word? Finish the sentence and I can tell you Just like standing up for yourself, basically. Sure. Advocate, yeah And like not letting your doctor say, "Hey, all this looks good. You're fine." Yeah. But no, I'm actually not fine. Yeah, I mean, in Alex's case, that wasn't the case.

7:07In his case- Yeah … he's actually fine, and like dude's hormones are relatively more simple. Come at me, like, it, you know, his are fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's g- his testosterone's good. He's fine. But you're right. I mean, it, and I do need to probably start paying more attention to like any potential symptoms. Like knock on wood, I feel pretty good right now, but I do, there are caveats around like sleep and some other things. So it'll just- Mm it'll be an interesting process. But, you're right.

7:33You can't sort of take- Yeah, I'm excited to learn more about that … anything. Y- yeah, you can't take anything at face value. You gotta, you know, and th- that's why like these kinds of, you know, snapshot in time things are useful only in the context of continual sort of tracking- Mm-hmm and progress and paying attention, and making adjustments and seeing if they work, and things like that. So, yeah, I will keep you posted. Yeah. But that's what's going on for me. Shall we talk about fiber? Let's talk about fiber, yes.

8:00Big, big shift. Big shift. Fiber, everybody. Everybody can't live with it, can't live without it. I don't know. I just, I just said that. we're just gonna kinda go through some, like what's the most common things that people hear, and what the, the research ac- like the most up-to-date research actually says about it. Mm-hmm. and I think this'll just be kind of like a good, like what's, you know, the like what's BS, what's actually legit, and what's maybe we don't know. Like maybe it's way more- Mm-hmm … individualized than we actually know.

8:30Mm-hmm. I mean, my thing with fiber, like just as from my own personal experience, and this is a complete grain of salt, gram of fiber, take it as you will- … because this is literally just my feelings about it. Having, we all come into this industry from like slightly different places of our own personal bias and our own personal history and our own personal preferences. And because my kind of health nutrition background was sort of like the paleo, protein forward, like that kind of environment, I, you know, and being obviously very like I tend towards a much higher animal protein plate versus vegetable, whatever.

9:10Mm-hmm. So I was always kind of like, eh, pro- or fiber, you know? It's, it sneaks in and it's fine and whatever. Like I have really always just been like, "I'm not really worried about fiber." And to be fair- Yeah … the, the benchmarks that people say you need to look for, like how's your digestion? How's bloating? Like how does your, how's your poop? All of these things. Like these are the things that, you know, when people think about fiber, having enough or too much, that's what you think of.

9:33And I, again, knock on wood, this stuff has never been a problem for me. I've never had bloating. I've never had really any food sensitivities. Everything's regular. Everything's good. So I'm like, "I must be getting enough." And my question has always been this, you know, these myths that we're gonna talk about and these like sort of phrases or sentences that are thrown out that we all just take as, as, you know, truth or fact without questioning it is, you know, we, fiber's g- fiber's good for your digestion.

9:58More, more to a certain extent is better. Like you should all, we should all be trying to get a little more fiber in our diet, right? Mm-hmm. Most of us aren't getting enough. and this kind of constant feedback that I'm getting from like, I don't know, whether it's like doctors, nutritionists, and I'm ta- you know, even my own health coaches when I'm talking about my diet and they're like, "Okay. Well, this is pretty good, but like you should be working up to X, Y, Z and like just, just see how you can work up and like g- your tolerance level and stuff." I'm like, what is with this constant, you gotta work towards more?

10:26Like have I told you, have I given you any indication that I need more fiber in my diet? Like there's just- … always this party line of like, you gotta get more, you gotta get more, and I think that's one of the first things that pr- from, again, my perspective that I think we need to question. Do we need more? What are the indications and why? Like that's- That's the- Yeah … headspace that I come into this with. I don't know how you feel. No, I 100% agree. And before I say what I agree on is I was just laughing a few minutes ago when you started talking because I just remembered the meme that I sent you about the chocolate and the frozen veggies.

11:00And you were like, "How da- Listen What does it say? It was a, it- It's a, it was a, it was a meme of like a frozen, dead, like vegetable person in a freezer- and it was like your vegetables like looking at you. I don't know what. It was something about- It was the veg- it… Can you see this if you're watching on YouTube? Yeah, the vegetables in my freezer are watching me grab ice cream or whatever. I'm like, how dare you? Well, then I, I sent it to you and I was like, "How'd they get this footage of you?"

11:25First of all, that's vegetables, so it's obviously not footage of me because- I know. It's just you … I don't eat any. Anyway, okay, so we're going off the rails already. Sorry. But- Yeah yeah. So agree with you for sure- Yeah … 'cause I think that it's just like anything else, there's too much of a good thing is a bad thing for literally anything. Mm-hmm. and it's also just like, yeah, blanket statement, if you're telling someone to just get more fiber, why, right? So when I'm thinking about my, my clients it's like the times that I tell them that, oh, they need more fiber, it's because I'm looking at the, the things that they're first of all logging or whatever and the ways that they're feeling and what digestion looks like and fullness, satiety, all of that, and the foods that they're eating.

12:09So it's like there's a, you have to look at everything there. but there's these blanket statements like, "Oh, get more fiber, get more fiber," and then people are wondering why they're eating a ton of fiber all of a sudden or eating a ton of these even like packaged foods that have low calorie, high fiber. Mm-hmm. And they're now super bloated or actually constipated because they're having too much fiber. Mm-hmm. And it's just like we're missing the mark here. So I think this is what we're trying to kind of clear up a little bit with some of these claims that we're gonna talk about.

12:41Yeah. So I mean, I feel like the kind of party line often for numbers, 'cause people love to talk numbers, is like 30 to 40 grams, right, is what you hear the most. Mm-hmm. 30 to 40 grams, or no, sorry, 30, 30-ish grams is like a ballpark good number to- Yeah … aim for, right? Rough guide. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, again, are we talking for a 250-pound man? Are we talking about for a woman who's trying to lose weight? Are we talking about somebody who has digestive problems? Are we talking about somebody, you know, whatever, right?

13:17Yeah. So what we've, we've talked about this, you say it all the time, like when we're, we're talking about what is our goal? What are we trying to achieve and work back from there. Like are you not pooping ever and constantly constipated and you don't eat any, you know, whole foods? Like, okay, then maybe we need to make some adjustments. Do you eat four grams of fiber a day and it's all processed food? Okay, probably maybe you do need to add a little bit more. Like there's, you know. Yeah. But I think the 30 number, like do you agree though that like 30, like the way we might say- A ballpark amount of protein is, you know, one gram per pound of lean body mass.

13:53Like, do you think 30 is an okay starting number, or is it useless? So I don't think it's useless. I think that it came about because the r- like, the general recommendation for fiber is about 14, 15 grams per 1,000 calories. Mm-hmm. So that's kinda like the, the general whatever- Mm-hmm … the people in the governments put out- Mm-hmm on food. Which we shall trust that. Just trust the process. so it's like, and we've all heard, like, 2,000 calories is the, like, a general number where, where people end up, right?

14:24But it's so, like, that's so nuanced. How much do you weigh? How much muscles do you have? Like, how active you are? It all varies. Mm-hmm. So I think that that 30 number came out of, okay, if it's 14 or 15 grams per 1,000 calories, 2,000 calories equals 30, right? So that's kind of where that came from. However, I do think that, like, a general, at least from what I've seen, a general sweet spot for most people is between that 20 to 30 gram mark per day. For it, but it all depends on where you're coming from and, like, where you're currently at.

14:53Because if you're going from eating five grams of fiber and your coach or someone says, "You need to bump that up," and you go immediately from five or 10 to 30- Mm-hmm … you're gonna have some issues. So it's kind of like a gradual, gradual increase if you're trying to get more fiber in. And then also from my, my issues in the past, I have gone way too far because I love squash and I love all these high fiber foods, and sometimes, like, I can get up way into the… Or at least in the past, I've gotten up high into like the 40s, 50s without even realizing it and wondering why I feel like crap.

15:31Mm-hmm. so it's really just finding that balance. but I do think like 20 to 30-ish grams on a daily basis is, like, the sweet spot for most once you get there. Again, isn't it so funny that's like, you know, we, we are so, you know, we see eye to eye on like s- obviously so many things and all the important things. Yeah. But it's like I'm the one who's like, "I, you catch me eating the least amount of fiber possible for health," and you're like, "I ate 14 squash yesterday." Like, you know, we're both just, you know, different- Yeah … different sides of the same coin here.

16:04Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. So I mean, another, another we talked about, like, one of the kind of good biomarkers, biofeedback ways to tell, like, is your fiber working for you or against you is your digestion, your regularity. Like, how, I don't know, how consistently you're pooping, how easily you're pooping. I'm pretty sure everybody that, you know, health nerds who listen to this podcast have heard of the Bristol Stool Scale, right? So, like, being able to look at the different kinds of poop and, like, which one's ideal.

16:30There are good poops and bad poops, right? And you want it to be… Do, do we need to dive into this? I think people know what a good poop is versus a bad one. but- If you don't, just check out the- Yeah. I, we don't … Google the Bristol Stools Chart. Yeah. We don't need to get into the, like, detail, but you know, you know what it, when you have a good one and when you don't have a good one. But I think another kind of potential, myth is like, if you, you know, if you're not pooping once or twice a day, if you're not pooping, like, this amount, whatever, that it's, you know, you're constipated or you maybe don't have enough fiber, you have too much.

17:03But that's also very individual. Like, there, there's a wide range of what is healthy digestion, and a lot of it is what is consistent for you. And again, you know if it's bad. You know if you're bloated. You know if it's, if you're constipated. You know if, like, going to the bathroom is a whole ordeal for you versus, okay, this is, like, pretty, you know, this very simple part of my day. And it's more about what's consistently you. Some people poop once every other day. Some people poop three times a day, and that's within the realm of healthy and normal, right?

17:33So just because… Like, if somebody says, "Oh, you don't poop twice a day? Like, you're constipated. That's bad." You know? Mm-hmm. So there's a range there too, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and everybody's different th- too, and there's also gonna be other things that contribute to that- Mm-hmm in terms of stress, and travel, and all the things that contribute. What, what is it called when you can't poop when you're traveling? Traveler's poop anxiety? I don't know. But that's a real thing. Yeah, yeah.

18:01so yeah. Okay. Keeping that in mind too. Okay. But, I think the next one that we wanna talk about was, Fiber fills you up so you eat less, so that's what a lot of people have probably heard. And so they, especially if you're potentially looking to go into a fat loss phase and you're trying to eat less, you're like, "Oh, well maybe I should get more fiber in my diet to help fill me up." And that is absolutely true. but it comes, you know, it's, it is individual and it doesn't just mean like, oh, the more, the higher I bump my fiber up, the less I'm gonna eat throughout the day, right?

18:34So that's where it's, you know, we have to take these with consideration in terms of, oh no, you shouldn't be getting 50 to s- plus fi- grams of fiber a day and hope, and doing that and filling up on tons of veggies just because you want to keep your calories lower and you wanna eat less to a degree, right? Mm-hmm. and that's also, like a lot of people don't realize too, like that's a lot of stress on your digestive system, right? Mm-hmm. So if you're eating a lot of different types of fiber, your digestive system has to break those down and that could, that is what could cause a lot of the bloat and constipation and all that stuff if it's too much.

19:07but on the other end of things, I feel like when I'm working with clients and I'm looking through their food logs and I see their fiber is lower and I see that they're, you know, overly snacking at night or they're not able to, you know, adhere to their, to their goals, their macro goals or whatever, and their fiber is super low, that is an instance where I'm gonna say, "Hey, why don't we try to, you know, swap out this, glorified candy bar protein for maybe some like yogurt with raspberries and get your fiber up a little bit, get some, you know, f- like real food into you so that you're feeling…" Not necessarily.

19:45Protein bars are quote unquote real food, but you know what I mean. Mm-hmm. so that you are feeling more satiated longer throughout the day, versus, you know, not. And so that's like an area where, yes, we probably do need to bump fiber up a little bit if you're noticing you eat and then an hour later you're hungry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean that kind of again quote unquote myth, fiber can fill you up, it makes you maybe eat a little bit less is, you know, to a point it can be helpful. Like it's like a m- more high volume sort of dense food that is gonna make you feel more full.

20:16But that's not carte blanche to like eat as much as, fiber as you can and it's gonna fix all your problems, obviously. It's not gonna fix all your problems. It's not gonna fix all your problems, it's gonna create some different problems. And so that kind of goes to another one which is if you like eat a bunch of fiber one day, you're gonna get on the scale the next day and be like five pounds heavier and what a nightmare that is. Mm-hmm. Which, again, potentially if you are eating a lot of fiber and it's contributing to what's currently your digestive system, if you, you know, haven't had your poop yet, whatever, that could make a difference.

20:48It can make a difference, 'cause it's also pulling in maybe more water and like, you know, it ca- it can make a difference, but it's not gonna be the difference between You know, you're five pounds heavier or whatever. We're talking- Mm-hmm … we're talking grams not kilograms, right? So- Yeah … don't, and I mean, this goes back to what we say all the time with the scale, is, like, don't let it freak you out anyway because it's, there's a billion reasons why the scale's gonna be a little bit heavier, and who cares?

21:13Yeah. And just, y- you check over time. Although I will say the one thing that, the one thing that I do like about the scale, and this is just an aside as somebody who is, again, coming off of a few m- months of a cut and who had to weigh themselves a lot when I don't typically as a rule do that, 'cause why? the one sort of little nice silver lining about the scale is that when you get a, a lower number, like when it shows that you're losing weight and that's what you want, and you see that lower number, you know that's telling the truth.

21:42When it tells a higher number, it's like, oh, well, maybe I'm a little bit bloated. I ate a little bit of food. I haven't had my poop yet, whatever. Like, that number can be a little bit fuzzy and not accurate, but the scale can't lie to you about being t- losing two pounds. You know what I mean? Yeah. Unless you're dehydrated. Okay. Well- … you'd have to be pretty dehy- you'd have to be pretty dehy- but that's why, again, it's like the consistency of you do it first thing- Yeah … in the morning, you probably are a little dehydrated, but, like, that is what you weigh.

22:10You know, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas, like- Yeah … if it's a, if you're, like, a pound or two heavier, it's like, well, there's stuff in my guts, or, like, I'm a little bit bloated, or I, you know, didn't sleep last night. Yeah. Like, the, the number, the good number is telling the truth, and the- Yeah … number you don't like is usually- Yeah … a little bit fuzzy. Yeah. And it's, yeah, like, over time it's like that one number doesn't even matter because you're looking at trends. Correct.

22:32But yeah. Correct. okay. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the next thing? Oh, net carbs. Ugh, here we go. This was all the rage during the, the keto era, which- Right … was wild that that was, like- 10 years ago? Yeah, I mean, I think- Oh my God … some people are probably, probably- Like when it, when it really- … using this loophole … peaked, right? Yeah. When I, when I was a- Keto person … keto-goer. Yeah. anyways, net carbs, they're still out there, they're still around. it's… Net carbs are basically total calories subtracted by fiber, but also subtracted by, like, sugar alcohols and things like that.

23:11Mm-hmm. So if we're talking about a processed food or some of those, like, really high fiber wraps or those high fiber bagels, the thing that gets confusing for a lot of people is that it can say, you know, a certain amount of calories on the label, and you actually look at the label and it's… Or it says, like, five net carbs, and you look at the label and it says, it says 40 total carbs, but there's 35. Like, this is an extreme example, but there's 35 grams of fiber, so you can actually it's like, "Oh, no, there's only five net carbs." and there's issues with that because th- we're not gonna dive into all the different types of fibers, but there's, there are different types of fibers, different times of sh- ty- types of sugar alcohols that are included in that that are not, that are actually can be digested versus those that they, people say, "Oh, they're not fully digested," so they don't actually, quote-unquote, "count." and that's where there's just gets into a lot of the gray area and the confusion when it comes to net carbs.

24:06So my thing is, like, always just, you know, if clients are tracking, if we're paying attention to things, we're always just gonna be tracking total carbs. because, like, then we don't have any gray area and we can just- Mm-hmm look at the actual foods, without having to, you know, make guesstimates and get confused by the packaged stuff versus- Mm-hmm … the other stuff, so. It's just a more consistent, accurate- Tracking of what is really happening, you know? Yeah. So just- Yeah … don't, don't, don't do net carbs.

24:37It's too much work. Just- Yeah let the carbs be the carbs and go with it. Yeah. Okay, guys? We're too tired to, to figure out net carbs. Who's got the time? okay, this next one is actually good. This one I have personal feelings about. So- Huh … the other, the next myth is that fiber supplements are, are no good. It's a shortcut. It's fake. Just eat real food. Th- it's actually quite… So I disagree with this, and it's quite, well-studied that there are some basically whole food supplements. We're talking psyllium husk is the biggest one, right?

25:09People talk about, like, Metamucil or whatever, these kind of things that you can put in your water and drink it, have really, really good evidence that they are useful and help with things like chronic constipation and improving digestion if you use them, you know, consistently and appropriately. And the other aspect of this, and this goes back to our jokes back and forth about our food choices, is that I think people tend to, overestimate how much fiber is in their whole foods diets, and there are some fiber choices that, for personal preference, like great fiber choices that I'm never gonna eat.

25:43Like, I'm not a bean girlie. I don't like beans. Hmm. Beans are like- Mm-hmm … when people talk about what has a lot of fiber, like, it's beans. Beans all day long. I don't like them. You know, we can talk about vegetable. A lot of vegetables are not high fiber. They just aren't. Like, you have to eat Two, three cups of these, like, delicious, healthy vegetables to get, like, four grams of fiber. Like, again, I'm not doing it. I'm not eating that much vegetables. Fruit, you know, is a little bit different.

26:07Like, berries tend to be really good. Like, we should all be eating berries 'cause they're just so healthy and good for you, and they have everything that you could possibly want, except protein. I digress. Mm-hmm … but sometimes you can't make it happen with, with real foods. It's the same thing we talk about, you know, protein powders and stuff. Like, no, you shouldn't be getting most of your… If you can help it, you shouldn't be getting most of your fiber from a supplement. You shouldn't be getting most of your protein from protein powders.

26:32But sometimes you gotta do things to m- get in where you fit in, make it make sense, and this actually, it is, you know, the psyllium husk is, like, a, a perfect example of something that can actually be really beneficial and really easy to incorporate in your diet if you just can't seem to make the m- the macros work with your whole food, diet. and before, if you have anything that you wanna add to that, this is a super tier one, A+ segue into our sponsor because our sponsor, True Nutrition, who makes really, really good protein powder that you can customize f- for yourself and add a bunch of, like, boost add-ons, I just double-checked, and they have a fiber add-on for their protein powder- Mm-hmm and it is, psyllium seed husk.

27:19And I think it's, like, what did they say? I wrote it down, 500 milligrams, that you can add in addition to all the other things that we've talked about in previous episodes. Like, I usually add, like, electrolytes 'cause dehydration. I usually add- Mm-hmm … like, EAAs because good. They have, like, a ton of, you know, vitamins and, like, adaptogens, and every mushroom you can think of. And you can add collagen. You can add colostrum. But you can literally be doubling up on your supplements, the opposite of what this myth is saying, don't use supplements.

27:45Double up on your supplements. Use a protein powder supplement that has fiber in it, okay? Mm-hmm. Do that. True Nutrition. Who would've thought? I felt so good about this. I was like, "Oh, I nailed this segue." Yeah. I killed it. You did, and I'm glad that they use psyllium- Yeah … 'cause psyllium is the one that is the most researched- Right for both, like you said, positive benefits c- constipation-wise and the opposite, diarrhea-wise. Right. so but you also have to make sure you're hydrating with that, too, and- Yes … you know- Yeah … doing your due diligence, But it's funny 'cause I never thought to add it because, again, I don't go through life particularly concerned about my fiber.

28:20However, and we'll talk about a couple things later- I'm, I'm starting to think about it a little bit more, not from a I need it to poop great or whatever, to be a perfectly healthy person, but for some other sort of proactive preventative health measures. And so this is something I would add. Like, the next time I, I get my protein, I would probably add it here because I'm not eating a ton of fiber, and this would be- Mm-hmm … a super easy way to do it. So just- Yeah … one other reason to use True Nutrition, also the protein is delicious, and you get to make it your own, and it's, like, really quite affordable considering the quality.

28:57Yeah … the website is truenutrition.com/muscle. Use the code MUSCLE, you get 20% off. do you have anything to add about how awesome True Nutrition is before we get back to our regularly scheduled podcast? I mean, I am just still loving the OG vanilla and chocolate. Yeah. Yeah. They're I, I got another round of those. Yeah. So. I'm still really into the chocolate mint. I know it's divisive, but like- Yeah … a good chocolate mint protein smooth- and I put it in, I basically don't drink coffee unless there's protein in it.

29:30And so I always- Mm-hmm … just do like, you know, protein and almond milk or something, and then put my coffee in, and like a chocolate- Yeah a mocha minty iced coffee, mm, so good. Okay. Protein- … fiber, truenutrition.com/muscle, code muscle. Yes. Do it. Support the pod. Get some protein. Moving on. Do it. Do you have anything to add about the fiber supplement thing? Like- Yeah. No, I think you, you nailed it. I think the next one is a pretty quick one. This is- Mm-hmm … something that I've heard a few times, not something you'll, like, I don't think it's super common, but I've heard people say, you know, "Oh, someone said fiber balances your hormones," right?

30:08especially in perimenopause. And the, I think the, that claim comes from the mechanism, where fiber can kind of, like it's been shown in some, you know, studies, whether it's human, not, not human, it's animals, things like that, where, the fiber can affect estrogen, and that the kind of the range of that, whether estrogen's reabsorbed or not, and how that can affect your estrogen levels. And obviously, hormones are involved in that, and estrogen is a big one in perimenopause, and I think that there's just, there's… If that's thrown around, it, it c- comes back to like, oh, there's someone who, like a woman who's, you know, s- in her, in perimenopause or starting it, and she's having these symptoms, and she hear someone say like, "Oh, you should just, you know, bump up your fiber super high because that'll help you."

30:51And it's like, where is that even coming from? it just comes back to, again, know what you're hearing, and don't just take things with a grain of salt. but from like the current research, there aren't any specific, at least from my research, any specific human trials that show that increasing fiber actually changes estrogen levels or menopausal symptoms, specifically. Mm-hmm. But there are, there can be… Again, it's, it's coming back to like, okay, are there f- you know, if you are, if we think about like if you are in perimenopause and you start gaining weight, and you're like, oh man, like, why am I, why is this happening, and you're eating a bunch of processed foods, and your fiber is super low, and then maybe you increase your fiber a little bit and you're getting more full, so you have more nutrients, and, you know, you're not eating as many calories, and you end up losing weight.

31:38Like, it's that whole f- that whole cycle, right? So, it's, what is the… It's like causation versus- Correlation … scientific- Yeah … correlation type thing. Yeah. so just be mindful of that. I mean- Mm-hmm … don't believe what you hear all the time- Yeah … is the biggest thing with Everything. Unless it's us saying it, and then just take it completely- Yeah at face value. Don't ask questions. We kn- Yeah … we know what we're talking about. okay, next one. If you're constipated on a GLP-1, pull back the fiber.

32:06And it turns out that that's not correct, generally speaking. Again, if you're eating- Generally … you know, 50 grams of, of, squash or, like, 50 grams of fiber from squash, yes, probably. But it seems to be that what you wanna be focusing on, because I guess constipation is a real, a very real side effect of going on GLP-1s, and I would imagine it's because your diet is gonna change very rapidly- Mm-hmm … very, very quickly. Yeah. And maybe there's, there's a hydration aspect, too, because- Yeah constipation isn't always directly, again, correlated with or caused- Yeah … by fiber.

32:41Sometimes it's because you're dehydrated. That's a- Mm-hmm … very common reason. So the- Yeah. And the mechanism of the GLP-1, like, one of the mechanisms is it's slowing down, like how your gut is processing things and how things are being r- eliminated, so obviously that can cause some backup. Right. And it seems that there's actually no research that shows that, you know, a normal amount, of fiber is worsening the side effects of constipation and things like that when you're on a GLP-1. So it seems like the sort of general rule is if you're experiencing this very common side effect, that you want to be focusing on hydration, you want to stick with the sort of, again, basic rule of, you know, 20-ish grams of fiber, a little higher or lower depending on your specific whatever.

33:28And whatever changes you're making, do it very gradually along with making sure you're drinking a lot of water. Don't immediately- Mm-hmm … just kind of up your fiber and, or, or pull back, you know, hugely either and assume that's gonna fix the problem. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, again, with this, I think with GLP-1s in general, anything that we talk about with that, like the research is still so new and emerging. I mean, there's years of research on semaglutide and, you know, all that stuff. But I think the more commonplace in terms of, you know, utilizing it for weight loss and things like that versus diabetes is we're still just, like, in it right now.

34:06And so- The, when people are making these claims, it's like we just have to take those with a grain of salt because we, we don't know everything. Mm-hmm. and it's still just so new. But it makes sense that if you're eating less, you're likely gonna have less fiber. Mm-hmm. and like we just said, like that in itself could cause some issues, but if you're then told, "Oh, I need to eat more fiber," and then you start ramping that up and you're not drinking enough, and now you're super bloated, like it's the same, it's the same concept here, so just being cognizant of that.

34:39Yep. It's important. And that goes to, like one of the next ones we kind of already talked about, which is like what's the optimal number and is there an optimal number? But I think the, the piece to take from this and just, it's something that when we say it out loud sounds like really common sense, but it's something maybe we aren't thinking about, is that if you are, eating less food because you're trying to lose fat, if you're on a cut, if you're f- what- for whatever reason finding yourself eating less than you normally would, your fiber number is naturally gonna go down with that, and it probably should- Mm-hmm go down with that, I would say.

35:08Like again, this is individual, but if you're normally eating 30, 35 grams of fiber on a 2,000 calorie diet and suddenly you're at 1,500 calories and you're still trying to get that same amount of fiber, you may encounter some issues. It's natural that, or smaller people are gonna probably eat a little bit less fiber and, you know. Mm-hmm. So the number, your fiber number is going to adjust with your overall calorie number, depending on what your goals are, and that's normal and that's okay. Like again, my fiber was pretty low for the last few months 'cause I wasn't eating as much, and now that I'm kind of coming back out of it and bringing it back up, fiber's going up a little bit with it.

35:44So- Mm-hmm … that's important thing to know when you're kind of manipulating your, your calories and your macros. Yeah, yeah. And I think the next one, I'm gonna skip past the fiber for everyone- Yeah … 'cause I don't really- Yeah … feel like diving into that. But if you're interested in understanding like everything, all the different types of fiber, there's different types, there's different… You know, you've probably heard insoluble, soluble, all that stuff. Mm-hmm. We're not gonna dive all into that, but you can absolutely Google or ChatGPT that and find out like exactly what type of vegetable has more soluble and insoluble, if you're interested in that.

36:16Mm-hmm. but this next one, is interesting and I think, it's s- I've talked about in the past and I actually just like kind of do this generally because this is how I meal prep. Yeah. But cooling, cooking and cooling your rice and potatoes to create resistant starch. So this is real. So when you cook, you know, potatoes and rice, and then you cool them down for a 24-hour period, it tends to increase the amount of resistant starch within that, which- And just to stop there for a second. Mm-hmm. Are, are we saying resistant starch is basically interchangeable with fiber?

36:51Is that kind of what we're saying here? it's not interchangeable. It's more so that the starch, we, there's like research and, it's well known that resistant starch can improve, glucose and insulin, regulation throughout, you know, someone who may be struggling with that. Mm. So there's some research behind the benefits of resistant starch for gut health- Okay … and also glucose r- regulation throughout the day for people who struggle with that. Is it also true, because this is what I, from, 'cause again, I do the, you know, the meal prep thing too- Mm-hmm … and I, in my bodybuilding days, what I took from this or kind of what people, how people explained this to me was that the resistant star- what changes when you cook and cool your, your rice and potatoes is that it now has less, like f- you're, you're able to kind of digest fewer carbs from that same food.

37:41Is that- Mm-hmm … is that a myth or is that … It's not a myth, but I think it's a way less- Yeah … it is not, it is a way less degree than people- Yeah … put, put out there. It's not suddenly like, oh, your potatoes have no, no carbs in them because- Yeah … they're cold now. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's not that. And I think the, the bigger benefit is more so what we've seen resistant starch, the health benefits to that within gut health side of things- Right, right and improving, improving that. but and then the other, I think, myth that people think is like, oh, when you cook and cool it, does the resistant starch go away if you then reheat it?

38:17And that's not the case. It's more so it just initially needs to be cooled, and then you can reheat it and it's still has that same- structure. It's not that it just goes away once you reheat it, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, at the end of the day, eating cooked and cooled rice and potatoes d- has health benefits. The, that resistant starch piece is real. but the, the sort of, again, extrapolation that I think some of us have always had in the past of like, oh, they have… It's, has such fewer carbs now once you've c- like cooled it.

38:47It's not. That's not really a thing. Don't rely on that. Just- Yeah … just eat it because it's healthy, and it's good for you, and it's, the resistant starch is gonna help, and it's great. But like, don't, don't- Yeah … get overly excited about that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. I actually didn't know this one, this avoid fiber before you train. And it seems- That one. Mm-hmm … that that actually is probably a good thing to do for some training, some types of training, endurance training specifically.

39:17I guess that makes sense. I mean, nobody- Yeah … really wants to be carting around like a gut full of fiber- Yeah when they're going on like a long run. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's more so just like the co- it's just g- think common sense. Like you don't want- Yeah … a bunch of fiber food to be sit- 'cause fiber slows down digestion, right? Yeah. So if you're eating a big fibrous meal before you go do a workout, your digestion is just gonna, it, it's gonna be slowed down, and it's just gonna, you're gonna not feel great.

39:43Mm-hmm. and also you're not gonna be able to utilize as fast those, you know, carbs that are- Sugars and stuff … coming, yeah, the sugars and stuff. So that's why, you know, having a more of a simple, easy to digest carb before a workout is typically what we recommend 'cause it's quicker digesting, and you can use, utilize- Mm-hmm that fuel faster. That's why Rachel's always eating her gummy candies in her workouts. But it's, but it's true. Like you see these ultra endurance runners, like they aren't eating, you know, s- bags of squash.

40:14They're eating goo gels, and they're eating like simple sugars and fast acting kind of carbs because that's what's gonna give you the energy for that specific work you're doing. Yeah. but it, it, there isn't that same really evidence for, like strength training. So I think it's more just eat, eat sort of well-rounded, get some carbs in, get some protein. Like eat what makes you feel, you know, f- satiated and- Yeah … energized and don't worry too much about the fiber thing for- Yeah strength training.

40:40Yeah, and it's even, like, the timing too. Like, I eat oatmeal or overnight oats, like an hour and a half before my session, and o- to have a good amount of fiber in them. Or, like, I'll have like a full meal of sweet potatoes and things. I'm not saying don't eat fiber before you train, but if I'm eating that 20 minutes before I go to the gym versus an hour, an hour and a half, it's a completely different scenario, right? Yeah, yeah. Do we need to talk about this last one? It seems quite specific.

41:07I- I mean… It's just, talking about whole flax. the flaxseeds, people eat them whole versus ground, and the guideline, the guidelines for that is just it's probably better to ground your flaxseed before you eat them 'cause you'll get more out of that if you're trying to get some of the fiber health, nutrient benefits. And the reason for that is because the whole flaxseed can just move through your system and s- you know, if you've ever done that before, you probably see some in your poop because it hasn't fully digested.

41:35Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's just a, a little take if you're a flaxseed person. Okay. Ground them up. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, I think pff Mm-hmm … hopefully that helped. I mean, maybe it just like answered some questions that folks had about fiber that's like … 'Cause it's this thing of like, "Oh, I heard this," and like, "I've always been told X, Y, Z about fiber." And it's like- Mm-hmm … just like anything else, you know, people hate to hear this from us because it's repetitive, but it's true.

42:04Mm-hmm. There's no, you know, there's no one golden rule with this stuff. I think we can all agree that for the vast majority of people, fiber is a very beneficial addition to your diet that is gonna help your digestion, it's gonna help your energy. It's part of healthy foods. If you're eating- Mm-hmm … fruits and vegetables, you're getting fiber, and that's great. But the amount and- Mm-hmm … the sort of obsession with always more is not necessarily, you know, helpful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And one thing I think, I, I, I meant to put this in there- … but I, I don't, there's not much like actual data in terms of research on this, but a lot of fiber before bed, at least for me and a some, some of the clients I've, I've worked with, when we're looking at their sleep being off, a, what, again, what we don't realize is that if we're having a ton of fiber, especially at one time, and then, you know, say it's a bunch of fiber before bed and then we go lay down and we're trying to go to sleep, digesting that fiber takes energy, right?

43:00Yeah. It takes work in your body. And so, one thing that I've had a few clients, you know, alter in their meals throughout the day, when we were trying to figure out kind of what was happening with sleep, obviously sleep, there's so many different components of it, but having a ton of fiber before bed, likely not the best idea because, again, digestion is gonna slow down and it's gonna, you know, cause you to basically be working harder It's, it's gonna slow down when you're trying to go to sleep, but it's gonna cause you to work harder when you're trying to sleep, when you're trying to calm your system down, go into that parasympathetic state to sleep to get a good night's sleep.

43:38So just thinking about that, it's a very, you know, random thing, but if you're struggling with sleep and you're having a ton of fiber before bed, maybe think about- Testing out not having that much and see what happens Who's eating a ton of fiber before bed? What are people eating? Are you eating, like, Chipotle bowls right before bed? Like, I don't understand. 'Cause, like, again, the, the, one of those misconceptions is like, "Oh, I eat a lot of, like, vegetables." I mean, if you eat salad and if you eat, you know, a couple pieces of fruit a day, like, that's great, and there's fiber in that.

44:07Yeah But it's like, it, that's not where, like, the big… You know, those aren't- Mm-hmm … the heavy hitters necessarily for fiber. It's oftentimes- Yeah … again, like, beans and grains- Well, even, like- … and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, I would take this, like if I'm lis- you know, we've listened to other, people have listened to other podcasts and we've, and I've talked about having fruit before bed- Mm-hmm to help with that, blood sugar regulation. Mm-hmm. And someone could take that, you know, out of context and be like, "Oh, I'm gonna eat as much fruit as I can before bed." And if it's like- Right … a ton of raspberries and kiwis, like, those actually- Mm-hmm … have a ton of fiber- Two different things.

44:36Yeah … and add up. so it's again, like, a l- a lot of, or too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. It's a- Unless it's chocolate … so it's just chocolate. Unless it's chocolate. I think there's fiber in dark chocolate actually. I think there is. Oh, yeah, I'm sure there is. There's everything good in dark chocolate. Okay. You know, that's where my head's at. I know where you're- But I do hope that this was helpful. We have some more kind of fiber chat we could get into if you guys are interested, but- Mm-hmm just, you know, let us know what you think.

45:05Let us know, is there another aspect of nutrition or training that's sort of like a deep dive that you want, something like this that we can talk about that maybe- Mm we haven't. we wanna hear from you, so send us a message. Reach out to us on Instagram. You can send us, a message on our website, MuscleScienceForWomen.com. We have a place there. You can just put it right in, click send, super easy. Mm-hmm. let us know what you think. Is there anything else you wanna add? No. No, I think that's it.

45:30We're gonna be, we're trying to ramp up our YouTube channel a little bit- Yeah … so if you'd rather watch than listen, you can go to the Muscle Science for Women YouTube. And yeah. We dressed, like we, we matched today- We did … on purpose so that you guys could see it on YouTube. We're both wearing very plain black T-shirts. Well, don't ruin it. And I know you guys wanna see that. I know you wanna see it. Hey, we'll- You should've said that we're not wearing anything. Listen, listen, for a price- Go watch us on YouTube.

45:55We're not wearing anything … for a price, we will wear something different than a black T-shirt. Oh. I'm not gonna say what Maybe it's a gray T-shirt Listen, it could get spicy- Or a white T-shirt … but you gotta, yeah, but you gotta- … you know, show up and let us know, 'cause we're not doing it for, for our benefit. We're doing it for you guys. yeah, until next time, you know- Just- … don't be insane. Yeah, and don't do stupid shit like eat 100 grams of fiber in one day, 'cause that's- Yeah not, not great.

46:24You know? Life is short, but not if you've eaten 100 grams of fiber. I'm pretty sure that I have done that because I've eaten so much squash- That's wild … and maybe not 100, but e- you don't think about it, especially 'cause I always eat the skin on, like, my potatoes- Everything, yeah … my potatoes- Yeah, yeah, yeah and my squash, and I'm like, "Oh, crap, why am I- That's fair … gassing up the place?" Listen, I, I can't, I can't, I can't judge though because I am the person who, like, if I don't pay attention and I just eat, like, using my free will, I could eat, like, 150 grams of, like, fat in a day.

46:57Like- Ooh … I could just, you know… And that's also not good digestively. So, you know, we all have our things that- Mm-hmm … we can just go haywire if we're not paying attention to it. So yeah, just, you know, don't be insane. Don't do stupid shit. Just know that we're here for you. We're here. And, we love you. Until next time. Love ya. Bye. Bye.